Building Networking Confidence

Alana Muller:
Welcome to Enterprise.ing, a podcast from Enterprise Bank & Trust that's empowering business leaders one conversation at a time. Each week we'll hear from top business professionals about lessons on leadership and entrepreneurship that they've learned along the way. I'm your host, Alana Muller, an entrepreneurial executive leader whose primary focus is to connect, inspire, and empower community. We at Enterprise Bank & Trust thank you for tuning in to another episode.

Hello listeners, welcome back to Enterprise.ing podcast. I'm delighted to have with me today Kim Dung Ho. Kim is the owner and lead photographer of Kim Photography based in Las Vegas, Nevada. As a woman- and minority-owned business, she's proud to be a trusted source for high-quality headshots, portraits and photography for individual and corporate clients throughout southern Nevada. Kim, welcome to the podcast.

Kim Dung Ho:
Hi. Thank you for having [me].

Alana Muller:
Great to have you. Kim, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how you discovered your passion for photography and what your motivation was for starting your business.

Kim Dung Ho:
So it start[s] with, I have my daughter. My daughter was born [in] 2011. Her name is Alana.

Alana Muller:
Oh, well I feel honored.

Kim Dung Ho:
But, at the time I start[ed] to take photo[s] of her... She's my one and only, so I take photo[s] of her. She's my everything, [I] take photo[s] of her with [my] phone [but] then I see other [photographer’s] baby photo[s] [are] so good. So I see the quality is not good with [my] phone. Then I start to buy [a] small camera and it is still not good enough. And then later my husband buy[s] me [a] bigger camera, but it's not good enough and I see other baby photos [that are] better than my baby.

So I start[ed] to learn and then I learn[ed] about the lens and how to use camera[s] and things. So it’s kept going from there until 2016 when we moved to Vegas from '15, and then I went to one of the Convention for Photographer and I learned to... They have classes and then I register[ed] and learn[ed] and I say, "Oh, I can do the business with it. I can make money with my skill." So I started to learn the business side of it and decided to open Kim Photography LLC.

Alana Muller:
Oh, I love that story. I love that you saw these great pictures that other people were taking and you said, "I want that for my baby, too." I think that's fabulous.

I'm sure that the road to becoming a business owner has been challenging and especially as a woman- and minority-owned business, I'm sure that there are many obstacles that you've faced. Can you share maybe an example or two of how you've overcome the obstacles associated with being a small business owner?

Kim Dung Ho:
Yes. Money is part, I learn[ed] YouTube. I invest[ed] in [my] education skill set. I [bought] classes from Creative Life. [I] just keep learning. I [paid] for [a] mentor. I invest a lot. Every [bit of] money that I [made] in the first, then the second year, even the third year is go[ing] back to the business and some of it [was] for the equipment, but a lot [was] for the education. And I see [inaudible 00:03:40], it's hard, but I understand the road because everybody talk[s] about it.

I pay attention to the successful people when they share their experience[s], everybody [had] to overcome something. Nothing is one straight line. So I know it's life. So I understand that normal process. And when I hit hard time[s], I try to find the answer in a mental [health] book[and other] education material.

Alana Muller:
What a nice way to understand, and you anticipate that it's going to be difficult. And so you invest in yourself and you invest in your business, really fabulous. One of the things that you have described yourself as is an experienced camera performance coach, which I just think sounds so cool. And so what does that mean? What does it mean to be a camera performance coach, and how do you help your clients to relax and enjoy being in front of the camera when you're photographing them?

Kim Dung Ho:
So I have to tell my secret, that's why I make money.

Alana Muller:
I love it.

Kim Dung Ho:
Most of the time, not all people are model[s]. When models sit down, they know what to do, but they still need a little direction like, "Up, down, left, right" and things. But most of us, the normal people, are nervous. A lot of people, like corporate, because my main clients are corporate people. Lots of men… the women [tend to] care more about photos. But lots of men, when they meet me, they just say, "I want to be fast. I'm not photogenic. I look terrible," something like that.

So I understand when I take hundreds of photos of people, I start to understand what people need. [This] is my job. Just sit there, [and] I will tell you what to do. When I used to see the executive[s], at the beginning I [was] scared of them. I'm just a mom, stay-at-home mom, even if I do business, but still the mom, and go out to see the corporate people where they have a degree and things and I get… I don't know the word, intimidated?

Alana Muller:
Oh, intimidated. You get intimidated. Yes.

Kim Dung Ho:
[At] first, when I saw high profile people, I [would get] scare[d]. But later I get excited. I just tell them, "Today, I'm your boss for two minutes, sit down." But they laugh. They start to relax at that time. And with my limited English, I just have to create [a] way that they can understand my plain English.

So my secret is just [to] talk about something. If they [do] not relax, I will ask them some question[s]. And I just ask them, "What make[s] you happy?" And then they say, for example, “food.” And so I say, “Think about food. Happy, happy food. Happy food.” So the way I talk to them is [I] make them laugh because [of] my accent and then I don't know, they say I'm funny. So I guess I'm funny. So if I take [a] picture and I don't see the natural one, the freeze one [is] like [a] scary look, then I take [it] again. I say, "Okay, come look. Do you like this one, or [do] you want to be happier?" Then if they don't like the picture, they have to work on themself because it's the collaboration. If I make all the joke[s] and they [are] still angry, I cannot do anything. So they have to do it. So usually when they sit down the second time and I tell them what to do, and they understand that for them they do it, they will laugh. I say, "Fake laugh, ha, ha, ha." And then they relax and so that's a camera coach.

Alana Muller:
Well, so I love that. That's such a cool thing. I think it's great that you've created this title for yourself. And, frankly, even though you may have felt intimidated walking into those settings, they're intimidated being in front of your camera, and so you're making them feel comfortable and confident. So I love that you have some quiet confidence that you're extending to your subjects. I think that's so great. And they get a better quality product. Right?

Kim Dung Ho:
Yeah. At least they don't look so stiff. I don't like stiff photo[s]. So far, sometime[s] when people look at my website or my portfolio, they think all of them just look like that when I take [the] picture. But it takes some time. It [takes] some bad photo[s] before that perfect one. And I don't post the bad photo[s]. I only pick the best one of the session.

Alana Muller:
Well, one of the things that I know you talk about is the importance of quality versus quantity when it comes to photography and portraiture. What does that mean for you and for your clients? You're talking about it that you don't have to show them every picture. You show them the great pictures. So in terms of quality versus quantity, how do you know when you've captured the right ones?

Kim Dung Ho:
Because I trained my eyes. My eyes are trained. When I see beautiful people, I know what to do, right away. If I cannot make it in the camera, then I make it in post. But I will try my best to pose them, for example. So I would lean forward and put the chin out, something like that.

So I always tell them in my inches like, "Little bit up, little bit up. Turn like a robot, don't turn around this. Turn like this." I hold their head and turn like this.

So I talk to them this way because my English is limited on words, but I tell them [in] very plain English and [it’s] very easy to understand.

For example, I say, "45 degree, turn 45 degree, not 90 degree, not 60, that's 15," or something like that. So yeah, I just think about something that they understand, too. And then, "Face this way, face this way. Pretend I hold your nose, pretend your nose this way, now you have to go this way. So we can have [it] straight," something like that.

So [I] direct them [on] very, very little things. But when they see the photo on my camera, they trust me because the lighting, everything is good. The last one that we work on is the expression. I will tell them directly, I say, "I think this looks stiff. I want you to be relaxed and [have a] natural smile." I make some bad joke[s] like, "How bad can you take the joke?"

Alana Muller:
I think that's great.

Kim Dung Ho:
I [made a] bad joke.

Alana Muller:
That works. It works to lighten people up, lighten the mood, make people relax.

Kim Dung Ho:
At the time they just “ha” and I already click[ed], so they don't know that I already have the picture. And I say, "Okay, that's it. Come see your photo." So that's the coaching and the thing. But you have to be fast. You catch [the photo] at the time they start to relax because if they keep the one or two second after that, it's going to [be] stiff again. So I talk and take picture[s] at the same time.

Alana Muller:
You're catching them really in a natural state. They don't even realize that you're doing it.

Kim Dung Ho:
No. Yeah, they don't know.

Alana Muller:
That's very smart.

Kim Dung Ho:
Some people, they just sit down and then I ask them some question[s] and they start to laugh. "Ha, ha, ha, ha." So I already click[ed] three times. And then I say, "You[‘re] done." "What? You already [took a] picture?" I say, "Yeah." And then they come to the camera and then they say, "Oh, the happy face and stuff." So they just... Yeah.

Alana Muller:
That's nice. So what are your favorite types of events or people to photograph? What makes your shoots special for you?

Kim Dung Ho:
Headshots [are] my thing because I can talk to people. I can approach them and that's [a] good way of networking, too. Because if…I learned about the energy things, like if you like somebody, you feel the same energy. Some people you don't like, you know it, too. So it's [a] good way to talk and see who's your supporter, who's your friends, and who's not. Not all people are your friends.

My favorite [is], if I do [an] event, the event headshot, I like to [do these] because I like [to] perform and people watch and they get excited because they see their friend[s], normal people, come and get a very fancy picture like, "Oh, it's so beautiful." I always tell them, "You look like [a] Hollywood star." And then their friends [are] so happy, their friend[s] [are] like, "Oh, it's my turn."

Alana Muller:
I love that. I love that. You said earlier that you have invested in having mentors and coaches and probably even when you talked about the importance of talking with people to build your network. Have you received a great piece of advice that you would share with others? What's the best piece of advice you've received?

Kim Dung Ho:
I think if you want people to like you, just do something, benefit them first. Give first, care about them, talk about them first. At the beginning of the networking phase, a lot of people [are] scare[d]. Introvert[ed] people, me, I think I'm introvert, but when I work, I have to be extrovert. And when I finish working, I just want to rest.

Alana Muller:
I always tell people who are introverts that you can learn to be a great networker, but it's going to be exhausting. Right? No matter what. So I'm not surprised to hear you say that.

Kim Dung Ho:
And the first time when I go out, I just ask for help. "Okay, here's my card, please hire me." Something like that. But later I learned that it's not work[ing]. It's already seven years and I'm much better, but the time because my career is getting better and I know more information to give to people, I'm more confident. My look doesn't look fancy, so I know that, but I don't want to make myself fancy because I'm not that. And I'm not comfortable in the suits and stuff.

So I accept the fact that I look like this: very normal, casual. But the way I approach people, I think more people like me at that time, is I offer to help and I have a lot of information that benefits them, especially small businesses, especially in Las Vegas.

All the bosses, they like to see people who want to serve the community. David, he's the good one. I follow him. I already told him that I copy him because I see him doing so well. He's very young. He [is] very young and very successful, and he's very nice. So I copy the good people, the leader[s] that people like. So whatever they do, if I can do the same, I do. Give first, ive first. Always here to serve. If I get something big, I try to think about [giving] something back to the community.

Alana Muller:
I love that. That's really nice. That's really nice. So I want to close with just a fun question. If you could go and have coffee with anybody, somebody who is living, not living, fictional, non-fictional, who would it be and why? If you could have a networking meeting with somebody.

Kim Dung Ho:
So right now I already have a person. The last job I work[ed] with the Workforce Connection and the boss is Jaime. He reached out to me to book the job for his team. And I tell some of my friends, they say, "You win the jackpot. He's so nice. He knows everybody in Nevada." He's one of the nicest people they ever met. I [was] so excited. And then I work[ed] with him and I feel the same, and he support[s] me and he always tries to help the weaker people. When I met him, he treat[ed] me so nice. Some people treat me very nice. I know one of them is Bernard. So I work with the team and he helped me to just perfect my craft.

Alana Muller:
So you picked right. You picked the right person to have coffee with?

Kim Dung Ho:
Yeah. Then I asked him one time, I say, "Hi, Jaime, why [do] people say I [won] the jackpot because I have to work with you?" So he say[s], because he work[s] with the one[s] that he like[s]. So I know he like[s] me. So I told him, "Oh, you [are] my opportunity. Thank you so much." So if I have coffee, I will have coffee with him.

Alana Muller:
I love that. Well, it's been so lovely to talk with you and to get to know you. Kim Dung Ho, where can our listeners go to learn more about you and Kim Photography? You have a website?

Kim Dung Ho:
Yeah, [my] website is kimheadshots.com.

Alana Muller:
Perfect. I'm going to send everybody to kimheadshots.com. Kim Dung Ho, thank you so much for being on Enterprise.ing Podcast.

Kim Dung Ho:
Yeah, thank you.

Alana Muller:
Thanks for joining us this week on Enterprise.ing. Be sure to visit our website, enterprisebank.com/podcast to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. If you found value in today's program, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or telling a friend about us. Enterprise.ing, powering business leaders one conversation at a time.

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